So much thievery.

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So much thievery.

Post by Mairo » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:27 pm

Is anyone having the problem of going to a new shop and wondering if the textures in there are stolen or not? I am having that issue. Also, lately I been having a serious problem with thieves stealing my texture and the only way I even found the stolen textures was because I like shopping for skins a lot. I have a list of known thieves that I go back occasionally and check. I really wish there was a list of known thieves somewhere so I can avoid shopping them. T.T
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Re: So much thievery.

Post by GuySBot » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:37 pm

I think that is a good idea to keep a list , maybe we can start one up here - then bring this more to the attention of staff .
Unfortunately I'd have no idea how to check or know what is stolen . Unless of course I seen something I already had being
the same but by a different creator .
Which I never have -
Considering I don't shop very much and while i'll usually add the original derive and/or my favorite of those derived from to my wishlist . . .
Usually i'll derive my own from the original because that is my tactic , all though I don't even do that too much be it short on credits to or
being able to find pretty much anything I can imagine wanting or laziness to not want to create anew . so to say I don't see much stolen
stuff and I'd guess by checking that way to see if it is derived a lot kinda shows it isn't stolen . As I'd guess stolen things don't have a lot
of derives but I could be wrong there , I dunno really though as that is again just a guess ?
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Re: So much thievery.

Post by LuvableVenus » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:14 pm

Mairo wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:27 pm
Is anyone having the problem of going to a new shop and wondering if the textures in there are stolen or not? I am having that issue. Also, lately I been having a serious problem with thieves stealing my texture and the only way I even found the stolen textures was because I like shopping for skins a lot. I have a list of known thieves that I go back occasionally and check. I really wish there was a list of known thieves somewhere so I can avoid shopping them. T.T
This has gone on for some time, though in saying that there are some devs that leave their derivables open so with their textures in place. Which makes it easy for anyone to turn around derive from that product and still use the previous textures. In saying that though, there are plenty of texture stealing going on. I had this experience way back with a texture of mine that was stolen form someone I was chatting with in a room. I lodge a ticket in regards to this and they never done anything about it.

So, I really think it comes down to knowing the dev/s, like you know whom you shop with. So you know their work, like you stated. I would suggest that perhaps check back through the derivation tree of others that you may suspect as suspect and not sure with their thieving other peoples art. To see where those maybe stolen textures have come from. Check also with the original dev if they have given consent for others to use those textures in further derivations, this could be on their product, which I have seen a couple do that. You can message them asking if their textures can be used by other devs. I would suggest NOT to name and shame until something is proven, then I still wouldn't. Also, I would notify the dev (if you know them and they don't allow the use of their textures, the product id number (PID) a link, as most have extensively large catalogues. Then the dev can investigate it further.
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Re: So much thievery.

Post by BraydenFinn » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:48 pm

Thievery has gone on for many years on IMVU. If you aren't the owner of the original texture stolen you have no business making a list of who you think thieves are, at least not officially in IMVU forums (what's left of them). It's become the easy way to make pro. Steal from the web, from games, movies, all kinds of places. Sell a texture 30 times over, recolor it and keep on selling.

It's disgusting and it' one of the reasons I don't create anymore. The honest guy gets the screws put to him or her by the lazy ones. IMVU's downfall isn't far away. Naming and shaming won't do anything. They make new accounts. IMVU doesn't care anymore.

Unless you have proof positive that someone stole a mesh or texture, I wouldn't get caught dead making a list. Staff won't do anything unless you're the original owner and have proof.

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Re: So much thievery.

Post by Extinction » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:08 pm

I've never been stolen from, at least to my knowledge, but I have found sooooooooo many people stolen from.
And if it's not stolen, it's a file sale.

Originality is dead. :|

Everytime I find something stolen, I report it to the original creator (as long as I know who they are).
And once someone "steals", I usually keep a record of it myself, for myself, incase they ever have something I *might* want to buy.
I rather spend my credits on the legit.
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Re: So much thievery.

Post by MandaMarie » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:35 pm

Mairo wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:27 pm
Is anyone having the problem of going to a new shop and wondering if the textures in there are stolen or not? I am having that issue. Also, lately I been having a serious problem with thieves stealing my texture and the only way I even found the stolen textures was because I like shopping for skins a lot. I have a list of known thieves that I go back occasionally and check. I really wish there was a list of known thieves somewhere so I can avoid shopping them. T.T
You are in luck. This is how I find a good quantity of thieves and report them to the rightful owners. I have been doing my part to try and help ChicByTrinity for a while finding stolen skins from shop, as I find many thieves (Mostly cause I never stop looking in shop) I report them mostly to their owners but, you can also find a nice list here.

http://imvu.virtualthieves.com/

You are right to think most of the stuff in new shop is stolen. From what I gather on my daily searches a lot of devs seem to belong to a group or something similar that releases "free" (stolen) textures and they all upload them to IMVU around the same time. I can't always find their original creators, but sometimes I get lucky. :D
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Re: So much thievery.

Post by Zara » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:36 pm

Mairo wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:27 pm
I really wish there was a list of known thieves somewhere so I can avoid shopping them. T.T
I kept a list of mesh thieves for years, mostly of people who rip stuff from games and other 3D artists, I was in a group with a few gaming experts and between us we'd positively verify where the stuff had been taken from.

We tried to get staff interested but just got hit with the standard "contact the original owner" bull. Well that's fine if you can get hold of them but most of these game companies are as uninterested in eliminating copyright theft as IMVU is ... in other words they'll only bother when it affects their paycheck directly.

Eventually the group died and the list is out of date, many on the list have been disabled (only because IMVU actually get off their lazy arses when it comes to these thieves claiming real money). But the ones that remain on there still duping honest creators into buying and deriving from them make me puke, what's worse is that IMVU have done nothing about them. :x
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Re: So much thievery.

Post by admin » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:50 am

I don't want to do such a list here.

We need to keep this place as much of a drama free zone as possible. We would also run into the very real legal issue of slander which this forum should have no part of. (especially with the bulk of people on IMVU calling "thief!" on issues that are not thievery.)

That said I have no issue if someone whats to do a list elsewhere and advertise that that list exists. (without naming names or giving catalog links and such here.)

Yes thievery is so common on IMVU these days it's become the pathetic norm. Thieving from other creators as well as ripping content from other games and uploading it to IMVU and then having the gall to say you 'made' it. Don't get me started on music, google image searched graphics, and blatant ripping off of company's Trademarked brands.

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Re: So much thievery.

Post by Twiddybird » Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:07 am

A lot of people will steal with the knowledge that they are doing so but a lot will also not even realise it's theft, I will admit that when I first started to create I was so ill informed that I took a texture from google images and used it without permission on a couple of my products, if I had been made aware that this is actually theft and that google images are NOT ok to use, I would never have done so, I only then knew what i'd done was wrong because the owner of the texture actually took the time to message me and educate me on texture theft, she was very understanding and told me how to rectify my error, if she hadn't..I would probably still be doing what I did back then and be non the wiser about it..sometimes the fault lies with the lack of knowledge, IMVU open up a shop placement for you but they don't really stress about what is ok to use and what's not, I know it's written in VGP and TOS but who actually reads that until they get into trouble, it's like the small print on any contract..no one reads it until it's too late.. I'm not saying that people that do this on a regular basis and are clearly ripping textures don't know what they are doing because that is just stupid, they are well aware of it but I do see a lot of new dev's not actually realising that taking from google etc is actually theft, IMVU should run a pre-dev programme to help educate new creators better, hook them up with veteran creators so they learn a little before jumping in, I know as creators we are busy and have little patience when it comes to others encroaching on our dev time but to mentor someone could not only be good for the noobie but also for the vet creator, fresh ideas and thoughts, questions you will be asked that you never really gave much thought to..I dunno..i'm rambling.. I just think that IMVU makes it too easy for people to mindlessly create without knowing all the Do's and Don't's and to protect our own work maybe we should be the ones to pick up the inefficiency of IMVU.
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Re: So much thievery.

Post by HugsAndKisses » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:16 am

I use this to help me find thieves (it's not always 100% accurate, so you need to check the products in the client): http://www.imvu.com/merchant/reports/

I have had 100% success rate with filing DMCAs. All products were removed from the catalog and many of them got disabled too. I recommend that anyone who finds their textures/meshes in someone else's catalog file a DMCA.
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Re: So much thievery.

Post by Roy » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:24 am

Twiddybird wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:07 am
, IMVU should run a pre-dev programme to help educate new creators better, hook them up with veteran creators so they learn a little before jumping in, I know as creators we are busy and have little patience when it comes to others encroaching on our dev time but to mentor someone could not only be good for the noobie but also for the vet creator, fresh ideas and thoughts, questions you will be asked that you never really gave much thought to..I dunno..i'm rambling.. I just think that IMVU makes it too easy for people to mindlessly create without knowing all the Do's and Don't's and to protect our own work maybe we should be the ones to pick up the inefficiency of IMVU.

I kind of agree with that...or at least a little text that you HAVE to read to pass..then they can not feign not knowing.

I get my eyes stolen a lot...I check often and have others do it for me sometimes. (Sometimes I just do not have the heart for it). I have caught a lot of "popular" devs ripping from me and others too. I try to inform the ones I know they are ripping from.

There are a lot of people selling textures too. There is a skin template a lot of popular skin devs use.

I wanted to move from meshing to get away from some of it...but blehhhh people steal that too. I never even knew people could do game rips before. I bought a few things back in the day because I was amazed at how close they got it to the characters X'D I even nearly derived one.

Character "likenesses" was recently added to the ToS so you can not even make a replica even from scratch now. :P Cosplay is over now.
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Re: So much thievery.

Post by Twiddybird » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:33 pm

Roy wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:24 am
Twiddybird wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:07 am
, IMVU should run a pre-dev programme to help educate new creators better, hook them up with veteran creators so they learn a little before jumping in, I know as creators we are busy and have little patience when it comes to others encroaching on our dev time but to mentor someone could not only be good for the noobie but also for the vet creator, fresh ideas and thoughts, questions you will be asked that you never really gave much thought to..I dunno..i'm rambling.. I just think that IMVU makes it too easy for people to mindlessly create without knowing all the Do's and Don't's and to protect our own work maybe we should be the ones to pick up the inefficiency of IMVU.

I kind of agree with that...or at least a little text that you HAVE to read to pass..then they can not feign not knowing.

I get my eyes stolen a lot...I check often and have others do it for me sometimes. (Sometimes I just do not have the heart for it). I have caught a lot of "popular" devs ripping from me and others too. I try to inform the ones I know they are ripping from.

There are a lot of people selling textures too. There is a skin template a lot of popular skin devs use.

I wanted to move from meshing to get away from some of it...but blehhhh people steal that too. I never even knew people could do game rips before. I bought a few things back in the day because I was amazed at how close they got it to the characters X'D I even nearly derived one.

Character "likenesses" was recently added to the ToS so you can not even make a replica even from scratch now. :P Cosplay is over now.
Wow, I was never aware that replicas were against ToS, I'm in the pooper then because I do a lot of work for people based on characters that they like, jeez..
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Re: So much thievery.

Post by Extinction » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:40 pm

Oh, I knew that day was coming.

People called me a fool because I wouldn't make them pokemon, godzilla, sonic, etc etc...
>_> I always swore up and down that IMVU was gonna crack down on it.

MWahahahhahahah
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Re: So much thievery.

Post by Elaini » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:09 am

Some just want easy profits, with zero originality, imagination and honors for self for actually doing the work. Here's what we have come to, all over the web really.
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Re: So much thievery.

Post by Roy » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:18 pm

Extinction wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:40 pm
Oh, I knew that day was coming.

People called me a fool because I wouldn't make them pokemon, godzilla, sonic, etc etc...
>_> I always swore up and down that IMVU was gonna crack down on it.

MWahahahhahahah

IMVU used to advertise their cosplay community so it is a bit of a slap in the face that they suddenly changed the ToS to include character likenesses. Roleplaying characters is still pretty big on IMVU too.

I think this is a pretty awful area. i mean some people ask for a "top like this" -links image to an anime character or something-. I mean, there is such gray area. Even if you want to make a shirt like you own, (or something you see online and like) technically someone designed that shirt irl. I know some people like to try to make certain celebrities exact outfits (especially music video costumes) and market them as such too.
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Re: So much thievery.

Post by Extinction » Thu May 18, 2017 10:13 pm

Roy wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:24 am
Character "likenesses" was recently added to the ToS so you can not even make a replica even from scratch now. :P Cosplay is over now.


Could someone point this out in the TOS for me? I've read through it and can't find it and it's relevent in a convo I'm having with a group of creators.
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Re: So much thievery.

Post by Roy » Sat May 20, 2017 6:33 am

Extinction wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 10:13 pm
Roy wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:24 am
Character "likenesses" was recently added to the ToS so you can not even make a replica even from scratch now. :P Cosplay is over now.


Could someone point this out in the TOS for me? I've read through it and can't find it and it's relevent in a convo I'm having with a group of creators.
It is in the Creator Agreement, actually. I just found it.

http://www.imvu.com/catalog/creator_agreement.php

Under "IMVU, INC. ("IMVU") CREATOR PROGRAM POLICY".

It is not in the VGP or the ToS, only the Creator Agreement. The fact that it is not mentioned in the VGP is pretty confusing, especially if it has been a while since you signed the agreement and read the policy as a refresher.
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Re: So much thievery.

Post by Extinction » Sat May 20, 2017 3:53 pm

Roy wrote:
Sat May 20, 2017 6:33 am
Extinction wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 10:13 pm
Roy wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:24 am
Character "likenesses" was recently added to the ToS so you can not even make a replica even from scratch now. :P Cosplay is over now.


Could someone point this out in the TOS for me? I've read through it and can't find it and it's relevent in a convo I'm having with a group of creators.
It is in the Creator Agreement, actually. I just found it.

http://www.imvu.com/catalog/creator_agreement.php

Under "IMVU, INC. ("IMVU") CREATOR PROGRAM POLICY".

It is not in the VGP or the ToS, only the Creator Agreement. The fact that it is not mentioned in the VGP is pretty confusing, especially if it has been a while since you signed the agreement and read the policy as a refresher.

Thank ya bunches!
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Re: So much thievery.

Post by Zara » Sun May 21, 2017 3:38 am

Roy wrote:
Sat May 20, 2017 6:33 am
Extinction wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 10:13 pm
Roy wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:24 am
Character "likenesses" was recently added to the ToS so you can not even make a replica even from scratch now. :P Cosplay is over now.


Could someone point this out in the TOS for me? I've read through it and can't find it and it's relevent in a convo I'm having with a group of creators.
It is in the Creator Agreement, actually. I just found it.

http://www.imvu.com/catalog/creator_agreement.php

Under "IMVU, INC. ("IMVU") CREATOR PROGRAM POLICY".

It is not in the VGP or the ToS, only the Creator Agreement. The fact that it is not mentioned in the VGP is pretty confusing, especially if it has been a while since you signed the agreement and read the policy as a refresher.
They are basically saying that they don't really care about copyright but they will use it against you if you dare to claim real money from them.

It's more of a threat than a policy.
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Re: So much thievery.

Post by Elaini » Mon May 22, 2017 10:08 am

Roy wrote:
Sat May 20, 2017 6:33 am
Extinction wrote:
Thu May 18, 2017 10:13 pm
Roy wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:24 am
Character "likenesses" was recently added to the ToS so you can not even make a replica even from scratch now. :P Cosplay is over now.


Could someone point this out in the TOS for me? I've read through it and can't find it and it's relevent in a convo I'm having with a group of creators.
It is in the Creator Agreement, actually. I just found it.

http://www.imvu.com/catalog/creator_agreement.php

Under "IMVU, INC. ("IMVU") CREATOR PROGRAM POLICY".

It is not in the VGP or the ToS, only the Creator Agreement. The fact that it is not mentioned in the VGP is pretty confusing, especially if it has been a while since you signed the agreement and read the policy as a refresher.
Likenesses, meaning direct copies from an interpretation, such as a movie?

I'm a great fan of certain books and I would have no trouble making my own interpretations of them, based on my own reader's imagination, so they're not direct copies from the movie interpretations, celebrities etc. but their own people.

The word "likeness" is a very problematic one, though. Everyone and everything have likenesses to something, by inspiration or by chance. That's why flagging based just on a likeness doesn't seem entirely fair.
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Re: So much thievery.

Post by Elaini » Mon May 22, 2017 12:13 pm

OK, so I asked around the forums. This is DarkAngel5's answer:
Hi, IMVU does not give nor allow legal explanations. We can't flag a product for copying or a likeness to someone elses artwork so not sure why that's an issue. The real owner is the only one who can take action if any action needs to be taken. IMVU's agreement is pretty basic and simply covers everything in case someone may become confused and feel whatever they submit can't be used or is stealing and uploading whatever they find online. Anything we submit can be used by IMVU and we must have rights to what we submit. We can contact an attorney for all other questions and advice. Thanks
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Re: So much thievery.

Post by ChicByTrinity » Tue May 23, 2017 11:29 pm

HugsAndKisses wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:16 am
I use this to help me find thieves (it's not always 100% accurate, so you need to check the products in the client): http://www.imvu.com/merchant/reports/

I have had 100% success rate with filing DMCAs. All products were removed from the catalog and many of them got disabled too. I recommend that anyone who finds their textures/meshes in someone else's catalog file a DMCA.
Well, then you're in luck. I have been filing DMCA's for almost 6 years by now, thousands of stolen products. They always "remove" the offending items, but sometimes they are still visible and I have to re-send the DMCA.
What's even worse, it's common that thieves steal not only 10 times, but 20-30 times and don't get disabled! When I point that out they just ignore it, and IF the thieves get disabled, then they say that it was not theft that got them disabled... :?
Let's face it, thieves make money for IMVU and that's why they keep them. They disable real creators for much less.

The duplicate product finder only finds meshes (and is not very accurate as stated above), but it never finds stolen skins...

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